Ruth L. Wett: Well then were most of the people who came about the time that your parents moved here to Tacoma, were most of them peasants?
Father John Cebula: They were mostly from peasant stock. There opportunities for education in Poland were limited, 20 me of the area that was occupied I can speak of my parents area which was under Russia; the youngster went to school in the morning, in Russian and went to school in the morning and in the afternoon they were allowed to use Polish. The amount of education was limited so the Poles would not be in the position to raise much opposition. to the occupying forces. They were not permitted to/acquire new some cases, to take lands. In fact the occupying country tried the land and turn it over to their favorites, either from Russia and among the Poles that might be supportive of their efforts. The people who came here were looking for a chance primarily to get a place to make a living, of acquire land. They had very little to offer in the way of jobs. In other words they were limited pretty much to finding work they could do with their hands. And so many of them ended up in the mines around Black Diamond, Carbonado and Wilkeson. a place called Fairfax you don't find on the maps any more. Then some more found work in the lumber mills in the tide flats. here in Tacoma. Others went to farming in the Puyallup Valley, those were the days of berry farming, just beginning; and some of them, I'd say were successful and became comfortably fixed on the berry farms.
Ruth L. Wett: Was this the area of Tacoma, rather unpopulated, is that why they settled in this area?
Father John Cebula: Well you can go downtown in the Pacific National Bank, on or 12th? you'll see some pictures of what Tacoma looked like 1870, 1880; you would be surprised how close the woods were to what we call downtown Tacoma now. 1 can remember seeing pictures of groups of Poles that marched in the Fourth of July parade; these parades would be downtown and I guess various countries were represented in parade: they would put on their native costumes--l remember seeing my father carrying a sword, and a number of his countrymen with him. They seemed to be a saloon some where I guess around 24th and Pacific, where they used to congregate that was the hub of their social life, for the single men I suppose, and maybe the married men. But some of these, were probably organized by the National Alliance (which is still active. Originally it was drawn up to keep Poles together. Polish them the opportunity to have some sort of insurance to carry them through the trying periods which you know. I mean other nationalize have the same. 'But I think that the Polish National Alliance may have organized these parade units.
Ruth L. Wett: What kind of community life if any was there among the Poles here in the Tacoma area?
Father John Cebula: Well, there was a lot of community life, I can remember shortly after out parish started here that we would have a weekly card party sponsored by the church. And the hall would be full of people playing mostly Whist. Then once a week there would be a dance in the Polish Hall, we haven't mentioned the Polish Hall but on 30th, reach of the but down Portland Avenue five blocks turn to the right and two blocks to the east you'll find what we call the Polish Hall, the Polish National Alliance, which to be a two-story building when I and the dances would be held upstairs.
Ms. Mumford: That is your father, and, and your mother?
Ms. Nicholas: Yes. And I was born there. I was the second child there born there My oldest brother, he's passed now and then when I was oh about two, they moved to Franklin in the coal mines and they stayed there until I was eight And then we moved to Roslyn ! mean to Ravensdale and then we stayed there until oh, they had a fire in the mines there and let's see, we lived they didn't have a fire, they had a flood in the mine, the water broke in and then we moved to we left there, and we went to Roslyn that was 1915... And then from Roslyn. I stayed there for awhile until I got, when I was older and we went to I, my parents remained there, but I came to Seattle, I got married in Tacoma.
Ms. Mumford: What year was that?
Ms. Nicholas: In 19 18 almost '19.
Ms. Mumford: You married someone
Ms. Nicholas: from Roslyn.
Ms. Mumford: from Roslyn. Was he born there?
Ms. Nicholas: Yes. He was born in Cle Elum.
Ms. Mumford: Do you had his parents also come for the strike? Or do you know?
Ms. Nicholas: Yes, they came out here for the strike, and that, well, they, the strike that was in Roslyn at the time. And they moved them into the mines there to work, to break the strike. And they had a very difficult time when they first came out there to the mines, they'd they had people there would chase them, and shoot at them
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah, the Blacks and they, they'd have to, one family, they had to stay in the cemetery all night to keep from being, 'cause that's the only place they would wouldn't look for them. And they
Ms. Mumford: They were chased from their homes?
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah, they were run out by, from their home, they wasn't allowed to stay in their homes, the houses.
Ms. Mumford: This was during the period of the strike?
Ms. Mumford: that you're referring to?
Ms. Nicholas: And but when I came though, 'cause it was later than that, and, in Franklin but we had to fight our way to get to school 'Cause they, they did, they was determined, the whites was determined that no Negroes should go to school And we would go to school, and every day if we didn't run like mad like a demon itself was after us, we'd be beat up And many a times, I've had my hair pulled out, just handfuls, pulled out by the white kids, they'd grab me by my hair, 'cause I had long hair. And my mother used to keep it curled and she had to stop curling it, and braided it up to keep the people, the kids from pulling my hair out... And the teachers wouldn't do much about it, 'cause one teacher said she'd "never taught 'Niggers' before." so, she said that we'd just have to take what, what we if we couldn't defend ourselves, we'd just have to take it And so my dad went up to them, and one of the, there's a doctor there, Dr. McCormick was a doctor and he was on the school board, and he said that "you don't, you just don't have to take that." And he dismissed the teacher
Ms. Mumford: Did the teacher tell you children that?
Sam Schrader: this bridge-- you could walk over the bridge, you didn't have to walk through the muck? Or did you have to walk through the muck, too?
Gus Demos: No, you have to walk ~ the bridge to come to town, come to sawmill. You had to walk that bridge because there was no road there. In other words it was separated from the Americans altogether. But when we come up here, was still separated, but, you know, we could go to town from-- it was down below this pit, you see, first, you see still goes by the same name, —
Sam Schrader: Well, I just really wonder how the people felt about that, because to me, it doesn't seem very American to have the different groups of people separated.
Gus Demos: (Laughter) It doesn't seem all right to you, yeah, but the Scandinavians were among the Americans. You know swedes and Norwegians and SO on, they were up that way. But there were many of them that were married. You see, they brought their wives from the old country, and those that didn't, they got married here. They were more people to learn quicker-- I don't know, the language is similar to the English language or not, but they do have some English words in their language, and that way they, it seems to me, they learn quicker than other nationalities. Sundberg's father and grandfather was Scandinavian.
Sam Schrader: Did the Italians and Greeks , Did some of them mind that? Did they just accept it or did they feel that it was fair at all?
Gus Demos: Well, they didn't feel that way, but they didn't mind it, because they knew that they didn't have +he ability to mix, you see. Because they didn’t understand the language. And that way they talked their own language and they got along alright. The only thing was that they had some trouble, you know, that was serious-—- well, like the fellow that died-- I told you one time, didn't I?
Sam Schrader: When you went to see Laird?
Gus Demos: Yeah. Like the fellow that got killed in the fire-- well, I couldn't understand Laird and of course, he had to send to Spokane get somebody that understood, and he had to go in court to-- well, not to He went al This the court-- well, yeah, he had to go to court. He had the power of attorney from his sister. And in that case I couldn't do anything, because I didn’t understand enough English. And, I still don't under
Sam Schrader: You got no trouble understanding what I say!
Gus Demos: (Chuckles) No, but all the same in a case like that, you don't, you hire a lawyer.
Sam Schrader: Yeah. That's true. You got to do that anyway now a days, no matter how much English you know. One thing about this Swamp- I was wondering-did that breed mosquitos? Was it a pretty bad place that way’?
Gus Demos: Yeah. It was. That brought mosquitos, but they didn't care. Who cared what the Greeks, let 'me be out there?
Sam Schrader: How much swamp was it right around the camp?
Gus Demos: Oh, not very much. Just a strip, you know. They had to build a bridge in order to cross, you know. Temporary bridge, it wasn't very strong, either. But we managed to cross from there to the depot. Where the depot is now. And we come up to the store.
Sam Schrader: Now, you said didn’t make much money, but things were cheaper. Well, how much money did---?
Gus Demos: Two dollars a day. Ten hours. Ten cents an hour. Isn't it?
Sam Schrader: Two dollars-- no twenty cents an hour-- twenty cents an hour for ten hours, two dollars.
Gus Demos: Some get Little more than two. The common laborer worked for two dollars a day. I worked for less in the railroads, so this was a fair wage for that time
Sam Schrader: What did it cost to live on? When you get done with the expenses of the rent and the food, did you have anything left?
Gus Demos: I don’t know, didn't have very much, no. It cost about, oh, thirty dollars a month. It all depends-- depending on the cook- if he was getting good meat, why, I think it cost that, but if he get cheap meat, maybe fifteen dollars. In one place-- in Ephrata, this side for elf Ephrata, we was working railroad, and we used to eat rabbits. Jackrabbits and sometimes small ones and they were good meat. And we got along for about seven, eight dollars a month. Of course, we got a lot of meat from them cottontail rabbits, you know. They were good.
Sam Schrader: Shoot them? How did you get them, trap them or shoot them?
Gus Demos: Shoot ‘em. We had a section foreman, boss, you know, he was American, and he had a twenty-two rifle and he liked to shoot 'em. So when we were going on the railroad, with speed-car-- not speed car-~- handcar-- have you seen them?- and he just stop it when he'd see one of them, he used to stop and shoot ‘em and I'd go get ‘em. He was pretty good shot, too. Never miss. Yes, it was quite an experience.
Sam Schrader: Well, in the mill-- did you ever see any bad accidents?
Gus Demos: Yes. Not in the mill, no. On the railroad, I did.
Sam Schrader: On the railroad? What did you see there?
Gus Demos: | seem I saw the train passenger train, got in the mud and all you could see was the chimney. And the fireman and the engineer was caught between the tanker and the engine, and the fireman apparently tried to jump and he was caught under the rail and he was cut in the Have id see you know-- spreading back in the car., The engineer, you could See nothing but the head. The tanker and the engine was together and apparently he was trying to stop the train, the engine, and I don't know how it happened, but they thought that the switch was open, either open or half open, and hit the rails and went over. And when they engine went down, he was going pretty good speed, too, probably sixty, seventy miles an hour or more.
Sam Schrader: The engine went in the mud?
Gus Demos: No mud, it was dirt. Well, it was flat country. It was the other Side of Yakima. Selah, they call it.
Sam Schrader: The engineer was killed, too?
Gus Demos: The engineer and the fireman, and the baggageman broke his arm and leg. And another baggageman, I guess, was hurt. But no other accident happen then, except with those four fellows. Two got killed and two were hurt. I saw here in the mill many accidents, but they re minor; cutting fingers and so on the saw.
Tom Ikeda: So tell me a little bit about what the Japanese community was like in Bellevue during this time. So you're... it was like...
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: We didn't have any special place. We just walked, everything was walking in those days. And we'd go visit our friends, but they were all a distance away. But the Takizakis lived right close to us.
Tom Ikeda: Now, describe where you lived in Bellevue.
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Bellevue, right now is where Bellevue parking lot 1s, we lived on that corner. This corner and the parking lot's over on this side. So I think it's First Avenue.
Tom Ikeda: So the parking lot to Bell Square? That parking lot?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Uh-huh, yes. Just kitty-corner from the northwest corner.
Tom Ikeda: Okay, northwest...
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: There was farm there.
Tom Ikeda: That's amazing. Just within a block or so from the current Bellevue Square, which is a large shopping mall.
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Yes. Of course, I don't know how far, maybe it was city blocks, I don't know how many. In those days, they didn't have any blocks. Laughs
Tom Ikeda: And during that time, do you know if your parents owned the land, or were they leasing It?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: No, we had to lease it. Fortunately, we had a very nice, people that used to lease it to us. And I remember we lived in a log cabin, that was quiet, it's about a mile north of where we lived.
Tom Ikeda: So explain that again. You said you lived in a log cabin?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Uh-huh, my brother was, I think, born there at the time. It was about a mile north of where we lived.
Tom Ikeda: So describe the log cabin for me. How large was it, what did it look like?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: It was made out of logs, and they had, I don't know what they had in between, but I remember we were cold because wind would come through those cracks, you know, between the logs.
Tom Ikeda: Now, do you know who made the log cabin?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: No, I have no idea.
Tom Ikeda: And what kind of farming did your family...
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: We didn't do much there, but mostly strawberries. I don't know what they did at that time, but after that we moved and went to a better place where Lakeview Is now. Bellevue's richest place right now, we had a better farm there. And that was just before the accident.
Tom Ikeda: So when you moved to Lakeview, how large were these farms? How large was your farm?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Oh, I think it was like three acres or something, I don't know. But as a child, not interested in those things. Laughs
Tom Ikeda: Before we get to the accident, I'm just curious what a typical day was like in Bellevue for you.
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: It was nice, we were just, you know, no prejudice or anything like that we got along with everybody. We had lots of hakujin neighbors, very nice.
Tom Ikeda: Now, do you remember, if you could think back who some of your best friends were back in these...
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: I did have very good friends. They used to live, from where we lived, it was about... I don't know how many blocks it would be. But had a girlfriend there and they were very good to us. To this day, I don't know where, she left, they moved to Yakima eventually. I don't know where they are now, but she was my best friend.
Tom Ikeda: Do you remember her name?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Evelyn Parrish.
Tom Ikeda: And so she was hakujin?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Yeah.
Tom Ikeda: Evelyn Parrish. And what were some of the things that you and Evelyn would do?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: Oh, there used to be a little tree, I don't know what they call that, you know, small trees where we used to go in there and play house and things like that.
Tom Ikeda: So actually inside the tree you would play?
Bernadette Suda Horiuchi: No, no, around it. Those small trees, they're not those big trees. We used to go in there and play house.
Ruth l. Wett: I remember when I talked to you last that you were telling about how close the Italian community was, that some of the people didn't even speak English.
Mary Stella Calabrese: Yes, there are still people, the oldest of people that I know that live around, oh, there was a little store, around the K. St. area, and in fact that's where we settled. My father had a house on K. St when he came here, right on 13th, and K. St. In those days it was beautiful. We could walk back and forth on K. St. it was all illuminated and we didn't have to worry about any mugging or anything. We could walk at night, there, in fact we did all our shopping on K. St. I didn't know how to talk, I used to go to Pete Verone's on 13th, right there by where we were living and just talk to him in Italian and a little farther from there was Milone, who later became a policeman in this town... And on 17th there was Natale Reda who bad another grocery store there. He was a very good man and had a big family there that I remember so plainly. He used to come and deliver the groceries and never forgot to bring a bag of candy for the children in those days, most of the people in that little community And well it was impossible because to tell the truth the Italian people were looked up to as, I don't know, ignorant, I don't know foreigner, I don't think we were so dumb but the American people, because we couldn't talk their language they thought we were ignorant. I bet if they went to Italy they couldn't talk Italian either. They would feel just as stupid.
Ruth l. Wett: I know that in that area of town, there were also a lot of the Scandinavians and mostly Scandinavians in that area,. did your community ever have any problems,
Mary Stella Calabrese: Well I never heard really because the Italian people as a rule, are very friendly people. And even if the Scandinavians felt superior or what I don't know. I don't think they had a chance to be antagonistic or unfriendly with the people, they were very friendly. But I know only once that my first husband who had to quit the job that he had for seventeen years, he had to work under Scandinavians who knew more about the carpentry than my husband ever dreamed of. But he was trying his best, and he had to quit. He couldn't work with them. He knew that he wasn't wanted there because he was an Italian and they were Scandinavian people. But outside of that I don't know of any other really antagonism. We got along fine, in fact, I had more Scandinavian friends around here since I've been here. And never had any problems with anyone.
Ruth l. Wett: What kind of work as there available for the Italian community?
Mary Stella Calabrese: For most of them it was ditch digging. They couldn't speak but they could work and they were willing to work. Naturally as they got to know the language a little bit they were able to go here and there and look for a better job. I know my husband was very frail and very delicate. His brother recommended him to some Italian that was in charge of the railroad gangs, and he was working there but he couldn't keep up with them. He was fifteen years old and he used to tell me when he came here that he had been very sick and they expected him to die. He had the small pox and he was so sick, they even ordered a coffin, then he changed for the better and his brother got sick and they used the coffin for him. His brother was l1/ yes old. So when he came here he was very delicate and a person who did more studying than digging in the yard so he couldn't work and he got fired. Went back to Connecticut where he had another brother there and he worked in the Arrow Company, factory where they were making, I think, the name was the Arrow, but I can't remember what they were doing.
Ms. Cronin: What was the boat trip like?
Ms. Cronin: When you were coming over.
Mr. Madayag: That is a big boat. Empress of Russia. Yeah. Empress of Russia. That was a big boat. There were SO many of us there it takes us 21 days traveling, not including the stop in every port see. About 30 days altogether to get here.
Ms. Cronin: Anyone get sick? That's a long time.
Mr. Madayag: Oh sure Several of them get sick and one died too. And they dump it in the sea, Pacific anyway. And so they dump it in the sea. There was a preacher there too, Just like a priest. So after the ceremony they dump it like that, just like that.
Ms. Cronin: Did you have a lot bf friends come over with you?
Mr. Madayag: Oh there are lots of us leaving with. One another in our barrio And we were about 295 altogether of us on that ship, to come over here, Filipino anyway. And then when I get to Grays Harbor, I think I was there in like this. vet call it barrio, in a OW of so many houses. We were five. the meridian, in the middle of the ocean I get seasick, and I was so sick when IT get here, that I stayed home where my brother is for a lot, for about eleven days, to get better. . And then I get a chance to work in the sawmill that time. And my work there in the sawmill is to strip those lumbers, anyway. Only three dollars and a quarter a day, And then in 1931-32 the wages drop down to two and a half a day. When after that no more work, that's the Depression time. So I went to Seattle and stay in Seattle and go work farm in Auburn, Kent anyway, for fifteen cents an hour. And then it drops to, yeah, fifteen cents an hour, and then in 1932, that's when I came here, one Japanese I met there in Seattle was from here in this Island, and then he was hiring and you know how much he told me he'll pay? He told me he'll pay nine cents per hour and I give you rice to cook. All the rest on your feeding you buy it yourself. If you work I'll pay you nine cents." So, I work. For about, not less than a year anyway. So I used to go to Alaska cannery.
Ms. Cronin: When was the first year you went up to Alaska?
Mr. Madayag: 1934. 1934 and then 65 dollars a month. Go for two months, that's hundred-thirty, for two months. And then after that we come to Seattle and we boys, young boys yet, we don't care, sometimes we got money. today and tomorrow we got no money, because we gamble with those Chinese people there in Seattle. So you. know what's a gambler. Sometimes you got money right now, but maybe this afternoon you got no more money. If you can hit it a dime or a quarter from your friend then you start gambling again, then you win, then you will have some money.
Ms. Cronin: Did you ever live in Chinatown?
Mr. Madayag: Sure, that's where I live, in Chinatown. You know how much I pay for one week? Dollar a week
Mr. Madayag: Rent. In the hotel. They change your bedsheets once a week. Anyway. And then that time we are not doing anything, I stay there in | Chinatown, I used to go fishing in the dock, ferry dock, there around the Port of Seattle.. And those shiners, and we cook them and that's what
Ms. Cronin: Did they have a ferry boat that went back and forth all the time then?
Mr. Madayag: What ferry boat where?
Ms. Cronin: You know that one we have now, .they have a little ferry boat ride
Mr. Madayag: Sure. We got, we don't have no ferry boat there in Winslow. We don't have no ferry boat there in Winslow. What we have ferry boat is Port Blakely. That's a Port Blakely ferry boat. And then there is a ferry boat there in Manitou Bay, and then go around the Island like that. Seabold, ferry boat there. And then after a while it comes to here in Manzanita. And that's it. It go back again to Seattle, that way. And I think it was thirty five ‘cents, one way. ‘Thirty-five cents one way back in 1936. 1936 I don't know, 1932, I forgot now.
Ms. Cronin: When you first got off the boat, when you first Landed in the United States, you went right to Grays Harbor?
Ms. Cronin: And then you didn't. go to Chinatown then, until you started going up. To Alaska and coming back down?
Mr. Madayag: I only went to Seattle when there's. no more in the sawmill. The sawmill stop because no business, that time.
Ms. Cronin: That's about '34 then?
Mr. Madayag: Yeah,. And then sometimes I stay in Seattle, I get into barber shop, work in a barber. shop as.a barber. And I only get a shave and hair cutting only 25¢: And I get fifteen cents and the shop get ten cents.
Ms. Cronin: Was that enough to live on?
Mr. Madayag: No: One sack of rice cost around three dollars. That will get x you about a month and a half to use that sack of rice.. If you eat rice in the morning, rice noontime, rice in the nighttime - If you get money maybe hamburger _ ten cents a pound. That hamburger I think you eat that three times mixed with cabbage chop the cabbage and mix it with hamburger.
Ms. Cronin: And then go fishing too?
Mr. Madayag: Go fishing in the, because we got no boat to go in the water. Still when I com here, these Hiashida people here, (they are one of the richest people, Japanese here, and they don't even, they only "torogotog " Car. You know. what's torogoteg car? That junk. ‘That car sitting there is even better.
Ms. Cronin: How do you say that word you just told me?
Mr. Madayag: What's Torogotog? Torogotog car. Junk.
Ms. Cronin: I'll have you write that down. for me later.
Mr. Madayag: Torogotog. Junk we call it there, that's Philippine lingo. Torogotog. Junk.
Ms. Cronin: They just had a bad car and they. were the richest?
Mr. Madayag: Yeah. It could hardly run. And when we were here we like to go dig clams, we even walk from Hiashida to Fletcher's Bay, and carry the clams Ms., Cronin: Is that who you were picking berries for? Mr. Madayag: Yeah, I work there and I work SO many, how many of them, one, Hiashida, Koura, Matsushita, Futokawa, yeah; yeah, those are the Japanese people I work for. And then it comes to 1936. We were getting 17 cents and a half per hour now then. And then I belong to the Cannery and Farm Union in Seattle so I was forced to look for a better way of working here. But then the Japanese had made the berries before at maybe six, six-seven cents. A pound, before. So I was forced to ask more per hour here in the farm because I belong to the Cannery and Farm Labor Union in Seattle. So I led the strike of the workers here, mostly of the Filipino boys and Max Avid is my secretary too.
Marie Mi Lew: And most of the men were in farming
Mi Lew: Well, yeah, they used to be railroad in the early day, but when the railroad quit then they got into the farming business. They got into the agriculture, see. Vegetable farming. They'd get a couple of acres and they go plant vegetables and then sell the vegetables.
Sam Schrager: Did many of them work in the orchards?
Mi Lew: No, not too many work in the orchard. Not too many in the orchard. There was an apple orchard-
Marie Mi Lew: Not too many orchards in Walla Walla.
Mi Lew: There was an apple orchard that was considered big, but they never did hire too many Chinese
Sam Schrager: Why did the kids come to America instead of staying in China with the mothers? Why did they come with the fathers?
Mi Lew: Well, they come with the father because-- You see the father came over on the railroad here at that time.
Marie Mi Lew: They only usually -- the boys-- because they could take care of boys easier than having a girl along.
Mi Lew: They come to America because they considered it a land of opportunity. They come over here-- one reason is--they can make one dollar then they get five dollars back there. But what American exchange you save one American dollar, you get five dollars back in Chinese money. At that time the five dollars would actually buy more stuff than the American one dollar. Actually, back there. They living, be like the--so therefore, you see, at that time, when came the railroad was finished. The railroad was finished, the Chinese was just kind of converging one into the other a little bit. And so, therefore-- right after the railroad I. think the government won't let the Chinese come in anyway-the women come in anyway. In the first place the Chinese Government didn't want their wives to go. Then after that when the Chinese Government don't mind so much- when the Boxer's uprising and then they open up the west to China, then the American Government don't want the Chinese people to move in here. So the gates was kinda closed in one end or the other. So the boys-- we had to come in-- most of the time-- a lot of Chinese come in as a general rule had to fake a name or something in order to say they are citizens or something like that. That's why a lot of Chinese people are that way, through that, because they only allow a hundred and eighteen a year. A year, they only allow that much. Where any country in the world they'd allow thousands a year, they only allow a hundred and eighteen a year. So they have to fib, you know. "My father's so-and-so," in order to do that.
Sam Schrager: At the time when you came in was it the same way?
Mi Lew: Yeah. I came in as a citizen's son. Wf mean, not citizen's son, a merchant's son. My father was supposed to do ‘business here as a merchant, and therefore, I came in as a son to go to school. I did, I went to school. I went through all the years of school here
Sam Schrager: Was that his first time here?
Mi Lew: No. My father's been here before. My fathers here before on the railroad.
Sam Schrager: When would you guess he was first here?
Mi Lew: Oh, it was 18 or something.
Sam Schrager: He worked on the railroad building in the Northwest?
Mi Lew: Well, I don't know too much about that. My Uncle did, yeah. 1800 something. Then my father went back, I think 1800 something. Then went back to China. Must be ten, fifteen years, I think. Then he decided to come back. That's all.
Marie Mi Lew: When he was in China during that time, then he got married.
Mi Lew: Yeah, he got married.
Sam Schrager: I imagine when he come over, did he come over with his father, too
Mi Lew: No. He just come over as a young man. A laborer.
Sam Schrager: He didn't do mining? He worked on the railroad.
Mi Lew: No, the railroad. The mining was afterwards. The people of China -the Chinese people are not very good miners, because they never had mining in China, that way, see. And so, they came over as a railroad workers as Laborers. They even tell them, dig ditches and stuff, that’s fine. But as miners, we have no experience. But after the railroad ‘built, then they have to do something. Then they got the idea to go out, you know they go pan gold.
Marie Mi Lew: At that time they don't have any more jobs with the railroad, so they had to do something else.
Mi Lew: Do something to create a job for themself to get, to eat.
Sam Schrager: Do you think that when your father came to China the first time that he had done well, as far as-- Did he have-- had he made money? Actually here to bring back? Was he in good shape?
Mi Lew: Well, he was, I would say, -- You don't have to do very much to do better than those people in China. The people in China are practically-they're living from hand-to-mouth, they're like Indians.
Mrs. Grayson: … could be more neighborly with both side of the races, white and colored.
Mrs. Mumford: And you were still on Lane street at the time?
Mrs. Grayson: No. No. In ‘24 I was living at 33rd and Oregon street in Rainier Valley. I bought my home out there.
Mrs. Mumford: Was that the first home you owned?
Mrs. Grayson: Yes, first owned in Washington.
Mrs. Mumford: Right, the other houses you rented. I see. So you do think that employment has changed quite a bit.
Mrs. Grayson: Oh yes. Considerable and what...the money that people are earning in these days, that would be ‘75, why...where we would feel that we were getting a great, great, great price if we could get that for wages, that we can t get.
Mrs. Mumford: Ok. Now in terms of the young people today who are coming out of school and being employed and are being able to go into things they're prepared for...
Mrs. Grayson: Yes, well there...it's a better standard for the young people of today than it was in 1913 and on up gradually, times grow better and more considerate for the dark race of people and it wasn't...not so many foreigners here, when I came in 1913. It wasn't so many foreigners and after the people began to learn to know that the black people would work and was good at their work, what few were here, because it was very few, when we came, Then they would begin to hire them more and more people come then to the State of Washington. The first colored people I understood were only coal miners that was in the State of Washington, and they came to mine coal, from other States, They were shipped in for that purpose that's how the colored people got to the State of Washington.
Mrs, Mumford: That's very interesting those was mostly...they were sent to that first...in the coal mining region of Black Diamond and those places.
Mrs. Grayson: Yes, The first coal mine I think were Roslyn, Washington.
Mrs. Mumford: And you had several...did these people come as families or Mrs., Grayson
Mrs, Grayson: Some were shipped in with their families and some came and their family came later. I was able to visit with one family, I was able to visit with the man that went around the different State, able to visit and become well acquainted with Mr. James Shepperson, The man that immigrant (sic) (imported) black people to the State of Washington for coal mining.
Mrs. Mumford: And it was in Roslyn.
Mrs. Grayson: Roslyn, Washington was the first coal mine to my remembrance there after 1t was quite a few different mines all over.
Mrs. Mumford: And after Mr. Shepperson, sort of broke the ground? Mrs. Grayson
Mrs. Mumford: He was the first, then after that many other black people Mrs. Grayson
Mrs. Grayson: Yes, many other black people came after Mr. Shepperson open broke the ground or open the way for the blacks to come to the State of Washington, and mine. Then the older ones that was here mining they scattered around the different parts of Washington, mostly came to Seattle...and Renton. And Mr. Shepperson he were a Mason he was just as high in Mason as he could go.
Mrs. Mumford: Did he organize the Masonic group here?
Mrs. Grayson: Yes...Yes. His sister-in-law. We were very close.
Mrs. Mumford: Then she settled in Seattle. Dad Mr. Shepperson eventually move to Seattle, too?
Ruth L. Wett: What did your family do, to make your living when you were on the reservation?
Martin Sampson: Well, they, when I came, fishing was the main thing. Fishing. The first time, I remember we went to Lopez Island and there was two families, Bob Edwards and Billy Edwards, there were seniors, they had two half brothers Charlie and Dick Edwards. They were from Swinomish, Dick Edwards and then, their mother was from the Swinomish, their father Amish, come from Duwamish Island The cannery was started over here, west of Anacortes and so they had these people here, they gave them, they had reef nets long before the coming of the white man so, these two brothers, four brothers got together and they went up to Lopez island: and their fish nets and they were so primitive. I guess at that time I was around four or five, anyhow, as I remember it. I laugh about it once in awhile. They gave them ropes and nets, anchors, so they could anchor these reef nets, these people so primitive, they said that Sock Eye would not follow the net, they'd have to make ropes twisted cedar to make ropes . They (Laughs) They didn't wouldn't use anchors, they would use big boulders. catch a lot of fish, that's the first time I went fishing, and to go on with that story, I remember that, there was a big field day, it used to be in Olympia for quite a while, the ranchers around here were settling, oh there was Apple Creek and so on and anyhow they had a ball field where they had been fishing, first catch from this here reef net, they roasted them then they was a procession clear around this ball field, and they were singing the tunes of this sock eye, because this sock eye, was a relative of theirs going back into the sea where the, one of the Samish girls had married into the people from the Sea. The land of the Sock Eye Salmon so they were giving thanks to the spirit who brought the salmon, they went clear around and they came back, then they spread everything on the head tables and spread it on the ground there, everybody ate. When they got through eating and there was a big baseball game, but the thing is that they still believe in they had to have the ways that the spirit guide, they had a spirit guide that helped them with their fishing. But then they continued, after the fishing was or the Cannery was developed many canneries came in there. My folks worked up there every summer. One summer we was over to Chuckman Bay, there was a Cannery there. I worked there for five cents an hour, put tins on top of these cans of salmon, we used to have to puncture the top of the can, where the steam came in, then they solder it afterwards, well this little piece of tin we put on there to keep the solder from going into the fish meat, well that was my job, five cents an hour, put in ten hours at a time, I've been working since I was that small, but then I got work when I was fourteen I left from there. But then I had learned something about this fishing camp, steam and so on and so on, well that was the main thing. Of course, they went hop picking When the fishermen wasn't working, he'd come up here to Puyallup. 1903, was the last time we come. But that was the main thing, fisheries, hopping and of course the younger men, some worked in the logging camps and the lumber mills, but my parents worked at the fisheries.
Ruth L. Wett: Last time that I was here, you mentioned that your uncle was a medicine man.
Martin Sampson: Oh yes, in the village where we lived, where: we, on the east side, amongst this allotment, there was a village settlement in there with the radius of about oh, a little over quarter of a mile. There were seven houses within that area. People lived there, out of the seven houses there were five medicine men. My Uncle Jim, was the youngest. That's where we commence to working was right above their place, How I happen to find out, of course we used to go, somebody was sick in Canada someplace and they'd ask my parents, they were good singers, to go up and keep time, beating on the sticks you know, and whatever it was, to keep time with these songs, so it basically gives the spirit more power to overcome the evil spirit. So one day mother and I, we went across the Swinomish Channel, we went to a farmer out there. And we come to a post and she said, "What's that son?" And I said, "That's an ad from the store down there about what they' were. Selling." She said, "Take that and master it, we're slaves to this new country. Master that, and you'll be successful." And she said, "Look at my cousin, Thomas Williams, he went to school, and finished this semester course up 'here at Catholic Mission School in Tulalip. Mrs. Preston. She went on talking about who was successful. "But you don't want to forget your background. Once in awhile, we go out and fast for a day or two, away from the habitat, up in the mountains where you can by and sit out on the Islands and bathe and pray not that you would become, but because nature will know you. Stranded some place, if the nature knows you, your not going to get sick and die, you'll live So that. has been my livelihood, so my mother says, "look at your Uncle, his medicine is good as any.: I had two aunts, medicine was on both sides of the family which didn't do us any good so the new culture is the thing. That was the very beginning.
Ruth L. Wett: Can you describe for me what it was like when you started to school? Did you speak English when you started, the school on the reservation?
Martin Sampson: No, I could say, "Yeah" and "No", that's all I knew, (Laughs) The language was very much in Indian especially in that neighborhood, except what mother tells me about these people. But anyhow, these Indians, who understood the language, even if they didn't go to school, understood enough to speak with other, the English language, there's very little Chinook (Jargon) It wasn't there language at all. English in our Skagit language, before I forget, a version of the Skagit language, or dialect of the Skagit language was understood from Olympia clear to South Bellingham, similar dialects were developed, the accent was different. The Puyallups and the Nisquallies have similar accents. Up in parts on the Skagit River Valley, there was a difference of how they spoke much like say the difference of England and someone from Georgia. But they understood each other. We went to school, that's all I knew. But the teacher, she was very patient, she was, she knew what she was doing. We had a teacher for a little while I think she was a stenographer, a stenographer's wife. I forgot what her name was now, she used to draw on the board, we had blackboards all around the school house. She'd draw images.
Ms. Mumford: Do you remember Mr. Shepperson?
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah, he’s, Jim Shep...they called him. He lived in Roslyn...and he ran a pool hall and, and saloon there for a long time when I was small, but I didn’t...I, I never met him until, never saw him, or met him in...anyway, until I was...around fifteen and I saw him...and he was always in and out a lot of trouble...breaking the law, you know, doing things he had no business in until I was...around fifteen and I saw him...and he was always in and out a lot of trouble...breaking the law, you know, doing things he had no business in, Ms. Mumford
Ms. Mumford: ‘Cause there was a business with the gambling perhaps...
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah. Gambling...
Ms. Mumford: Okay, now, my understanding is that he was connected.
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah, he helped to get men out...from the East, out...to Roslyn in the early days to help break the strike there...and...they had a little settlement I call it a settlement, little...area where there was a lot of Negroes, they put'em all together in a group, you know, housing, they didn’t have nice homes like the, the whites, they wouldn't let ‘em live over in this area, or they wouldn't let ‘em live in that area.
Ms. Mumford: This was in Roslyn?
Ms. Nicholas: In Roslyn. And the same thing in Ravensdale, and the same thing in...in Franklin. They were all grouped together. Except my dad now, he moved, he bought his home, and he moved down...in the flats...
Ms. Mumford: Were there problems with him being a "Negro' in those days, moving out of the...designated area...!
Ms. Mumford: Did you have, did he have problems as the result of that? Ms. Nicholas
Ms. Mumford: Now, was this company housing where the blacks were, at, in that...
Ms. Mumford: ...area that you were...that was company housing.
Ms. Nicholas: Yes, company housing. And then when we moved to, to Ros, to Raven dale...they were, they wouldn't, there was no place in town that you could live, except up on the slag dump...where the mines had...filled in a Lot of land, and there was just nothing but slag from the mines...
Ms. Nicholas: Then they built houses on it.
Ms. Mumford: These were company houses also.
Ms. Nicholas: Yeah, company houses. And...
Ms. Mumford: And that’s the only place...
Ms. Nicholas: That's the only place you could live. But we didn’t live there, we moved to Georgetown...a Little...suburb from...Ravensdale. And we were the only Blacks, only Negroes that wasn't living in...this dump. And they called it the ‘slag dump’. That's what the, that's where the Negroes lived... And we moved...down there, and there's...a man named Mr. Frazier...Jack Frazier, he was the only one down there that would rent us a place to live...
Ms. Mumford: That would rent a place to live.
Ms. Nicholas: Yes... In this place. But after we moved down there...we were able to get some land, about an acre and a half of land, and we built our own
Ms. Mumford: From the mines...
Ms. Mumford: Now this was..-.
Ms. Nicholas: In Ravensdale.
Ms. Mumford: In Ravensdale. Okay. So you were able to buy. And you didn't have any problems...
Ms. Nicholas: No, we didn't have any problems, once we moved down there, we didn't have any trouble... And people are all nice... We had a little trouble right, the kids there for awhile there, you know, little kids, you know...they...they’d throw rocks at us or something, and we'd throw back, and...they, they quit...The next thing you know, they was all piled up at the door playing... (both laugh). Ms.
Mrs. Mumford: Like kids will do.
Ms. Nicholas: Yes. So, that's the only trouble we ever had...and, in Ravensdale, and we didn’t have any in Roslyn... But everything was pretty quiet and pretty settled…organized you know, when we moved to Roslyn, but...they had...people could live different places, if they bought their homes, but they didn't want, the whites wouldn't rent them a place. But they'd sell them a place... And several of them had...pretty nice homes there. And...and they could live right beside you, and they didn’t bother you, and sometimes they became very good friends. But »when we moved over we lived for about a year, and...and...rented a house, until we got our piece, we bought some land and built our own home...and we lived there until I left home and got married... And I was going to live in Seattle, and...my husband couldn't find the work that he wanted...and so, we moved back to Roslyn and he went in the mines. But...when...my baby was born, Cecil was born...1I moved to...1l said, "I wasn’t gonna raise him in the coal mines..." because I was...apprehensive...every, every day I was worried until...my husband would show wp.
Ms. Mumford: Did you have many...cave-ins, and...
Ms. Nicholas: Always something happening, always something. Somebody getting...hurt or something, you know, and...I...just didn’t want to go through with that, so I told him I was going to move to Seattle... And he said he wasn't going to move...so I packed up Cecil and came to Seattle... And I was over here, I was looking for a job...and I couldn't find one at first, you know...I found a job, but £ couldn't find the...proper baby-sitter like I wanted to put held in. And... this white woman had said she would take care of him, she had a little boy about the same size as mine. And he was about two...years old. And...but before »see went on the job...who should show up but my husband...(both laugh)